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Holly Hall

I have found various ancestors keeping the following pubs and would welcome any information about the history of any of them: the King's-Head at Holly Hall in 1850-1861, the King-William at Pensnett Road in 1881, the Old Coach and Horses at No.7 Stourbridge Road, Holly Hall, and the Seven-Stars 20-21 High Street Dudley in 1892.
Hazel McMullin Bridgend, Glamorgan 5th April 2009

Can you provide some of the names you are talking about. It would save quite a lot of time when looking up records. Kieron
They are all Share. Two Samuel's, a Sarah and a Joseph, and later Sarah's second husband Daniel Baker. King's Head - Samuel Share? Mrs Sarah Share in 1850 Post Office Directory and 1851 census. Daniel Baker [with wife Sarah] in the 1861 census. Old Coach and Horses - Samuel Share in 1881 and 1891 census and Kelly's Directories for 1892 and 1896. King William - Joseph Share Manager 1881, also a bar man for his father at the Old Coach and Horses in 1891, possibly the one listed at the Seven Stars in Kelly's Directory for 1896. I have my fingers crossed that someone can help further.
Hazel McMullin Bridgend, Glamorgan 6th April 2009

Located in Woodside, the Old Coach and Horses had the ‘Old’ in its title to distinguish it from another Coach and Horses, also located on the Stourbridge Road. The original pub was gutted by a fire and demolished. The replacement building opened in 1965. Sadly, this means you cannot visit the building in which your ancestors once lived. Samuel Share kept the pub from around 1880 to 1892. He was married to a Scottish woman called Margaret. His son worked in the pub as a barman and lived at the property with his wife Nancy. The couple had previously kept the King William, not far away on the Pensnett Road. This was a family thing because the Share’s had kept the pub for many years. Samuel Share was recorded there in 1841. This pub has also been rebuilt. From the marriage register of St Edmunds in Dudley: 8th July 1878 Joseph Share (20), labourer, son of Samuel Share, victualler, married Nancy Smith (21), daughter of James Smith, grinder. This last piece should get you going in another direction. Kieron
Many thanks for this which confirms what I had already found of the family. Son Joseph with Nancy was the manager of the King William in 1881. Do you have any idea if son Joseph went on to keep the Seven Stars? A Joseph was listed there in Kelly's Directory of 1896. It could not have been the same Samuel there in 1841 as Margaret's husband was born in 1831 his father was a Joseph. Samuel 1831 was married to Ann Brown in 1852 in Kingswinford. Can you tell me where you found the 1841 information please? None of the Samuel's I have identified are publicans on the 1841 census so this would help sorting out the many Samuels. I have totally failed to find the marriage to Margaret though I do have them on the censuses. Could it be possible that the 1841 Samuel keeping the Old Coach and Horses was Sarah's husband you recall she kept the King's Head in 1850. Her Samuel died before 1851 but he was on the 1841 census as a coal miner - the address was simply Holly Hall? I have other family publicans working at other trades while the wife and sons really ran the pub. I can't think why she would move to the King's Head though. I get the feeling that they started the King's Head in their own home. Does any one know anything about it before 1851?
Hazel McMullin Bridgend, Glamorgan 6th April 2009
On reading your last post again I can see that the Samuel you mention in 1841 was keeping the King William on Pensnett Road. Is it possible that the King William and the King's Head were one and the same? This would then make sense and be the proof I need that Sarah's husband Samuel did become a publican before he died. Now, is there any record of either the King's Head or the King William before 1841? Are both pubs recorded at the same time at all? The Samuel and Sarah in Pensnett Road were Uncle and Aunt of the Samuel at the Old Coach and Horses in Stourbridge Road.
Hazel McMullin Bridgend, Glamorgan 7th April 2009
I have not researched this area in any detail but, yes, I believe they are the same pub.. It started life as the King William IV because it was first licensed during his reign. The King's Head name crops up in later years but the pub reverted to simply the King William. Wolverhampton and Dudley Breweries Ltd. later bought the pub. Kieron
Great. So it would appear that Samuel Share was keeping the King William/King's Head before his death and his widow Sarah continued with it until her second marriage when her new husband Daniel Baker took over I assume until their deaths [she died in 1867 and he in 1868] their nephew was there in 1881 so who was there in 1871. Was it another family member I wonder? Many thanks for this piece of the jigsaw.
Hazel McMullin Bridgend, Glamorgan 8th April 2009
Now that gives me another problem. In the Post Office directory for 1876 we find Share Samuel at the King's Head at Holly Hall and Mrs Sarah Share a shopkeeper. Now, who were these? The original Samuel and Sarah had long died. Their son Samuel b.1815 died March qtr 1871; his wife Sarah nee Wall was at No.9 Pensnett Road in 1871. Samuel [1831] of the Old Coach and Horses cousin of Samuel [1815] was at No.15 Pensnett Road in 1871. The address of the King William/King's Head was No.8 Pensnett Road so who was the Samuel keeping it in 1876? Was it Samuel [1831] before going to the Old Coach and Horses? His son Joseph we know was managing the King William in 1881. Was this for his father until a new tenant was found?
Hazel McMullin Bridgend, Glamorgan 8th April 2009
A bit of caution about addresses, particularly in this case. It has had several addresses. In fact, the pub itself was moved in 1915. Kieron

Somersetshire-Arms

Dudley

I need help in finding anything about this house which was kept in 1861 by Reuben Carter.
Hazel McMullin Bridgend, Glamorgan 10th April 2009

Well, for a start the beer house was almost certainly opened and named by Reuben Carter for he hailed from Paulton in Somerset. I notice in the census for the date you have provided that he was also a coal miner. The ages and birthplaces of his children suggests that he and his wife Elizabeth moved to Dudley between 1847-1850. The couple were also recorded at the Somersetshire House in 1871 when the address was given as No.19 St. John's Street. The line of this road has been modified and altered over the years and Shirley Road is the name given to the section of where the Somersetshire House was located. The census marked the pub as near Cawney Hill. I have a record of Reuben Carter at the Somersetshire House in 1879 but by 1881 Elizabeth is recorded as a widow. She had moved next door to run a greengrocer's shop whilst her son William worked as a quarry labourer. There was a quarry at Cawney Hill so one would assume this is where he earned his money. Kieron

“We've uncovered some embarrassing ancestors in the not-too-distant past.
Some horse thieves, and some people killed on Saturday nights.
One of my relatives, unfortunately, was even in the newspaper business.”
Jimmy Carter
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